Maximizing Tax Savings: R&D Credits, Entity Selection, and the Work Opportunity Credit, Ep #11

[0:00] Speaker: Mike Payne by the numbers here. Welcome back to week two of our conversation with two accountants from Clifton Larson, Allen with us, Dylan Valentine and Nick Romanelli. Here to talk about some of those things that manufacturers should be looking at for 2024 tax prep as always greatly Appreciate your support.

[0:20] Uh, please share this with anybody you think can get value out of it rate review the podcast And um, yeah, let’s get going

[0:40] Speaker 2: Welcome to buy the numbers Each week, we’ll explore the numbers that drive your business from accounting and finance to operations and the exciting realm of mergers and acquisitions. Whether you’re a seasoned veteran or just starting out, our discussions will equip you with the insights and strategies you need to rein in the power of data to elevate your manufacturing company.

Let’s crunch some numbers.

[1:00] Speaker: Yeah. So like I’m, I’m thinking about one of the, one of the manufacturing facilities I have, you know, that we bought two years ago and, and in my head, and correct me if I’m wrong. So yeah, my power system, my air system, all my it systems, right. So all my cabling, you know, I think all manufacturers right now are focused on, you know, kind of digitizing, right.

[1:20] And connecting the machines. And I know you guys are intimately involved in, in helping companies do that, you know, but it takes a lot of infrastructure. But that, like, so for that IT infrastructure, just as an example, that could be pulled out of a 39 year depreciation schedule. into what? Probably a five or seven.

[1:40] Speaker 3: Yeah, we go back kind of the same thing with the power hookup. If it’s specific to that machine, meaning you need that cabling in order for that machine to operate, then it would tie back to the machine and it’d be a five or seven year recovery period.

Speaker: Yeah. So that, that can have a significant impact on, I mean, your longterm depreciation schedule, but even just.

[2:00] This current year, you could, you could find a significant amount of depreciation to add

[2:10] Speaker 3: absolutely. Yeah. With the accelerated methods that we still have available, you can really accelerate that benefit. Right? Again, 39 years is a long. Time to run that out. I don’t know that I’ve seen very many taxpayers get to a fully depreciated 39 year building

[2:20] Speaker: Yeah, probably not very many.

[2:30] That’s the that’s the life cycle of a business ownership there. So yeah So the the other item that that I personally feel like is probably one of the most overlooked thing for manufacturers Let’s give an overview of R& D tax credits, you know, you don’t have to be a research lab to claim those right? So so talk about those in the aspect of of manufacturers

[2:50] Speaker 4: Yeah, main question when I’m working with manufacturers and discussing the topic of the R& D tax credit is are you dealing with the unknown in some way and how are you going about that process?

[3:00] And that can look like spending time and resources to create and new and innovate products, spending time on improving existing products, developing processes, prototypes, and really just having a process around that. Yeah. And. With that becomes documentation too. When you’re going to maybe claim that credit, you want to make sure that you have all the documentation in place to make sure that you can support.

[3:30] All of that in the end to say, here’s the job listing of what we were doing. And here are the people that worked on it and here, the amount of hours that they worked on it too. So there’s definitely a lot of opportunity there to claim it too, but the documentation piece is definitely important as well.

[3:40] Speaker: So let’s frame that up in reference of, you know, most of my listeners own a job shop. machine shop, right? So, so at any given time, we don’t know what we’re running next, right? I mean, so in, in, in the case of my business, I’m, I’m probably, you know, somewhere in the neighborhood of 60 percent of the work I run is, I’ve run before, and maybe I’ve been running for 40 years, and then there’s 40 percent that it’s first time run, maybe an only time run, I’ve got to, you know, I got to create a new program for that part.

[4:20] I got to create fixturing. I’ve got to create new processes, everything around that. Maybe I have to acquire tooling. All sorts of things to run this new job that I’ve never run before. And I, and I think that’s true of, you know, a lot of the audience. You know, the percentage of new versus old work might be different, but, but we all have new work.

[4:40] Hopefully. I mean, that’s our goal, right? It’s, it’s to be getting new work. So, there’s an element of that new job that is all, all kind of qualifies under what you just described, Dylan. Is that correct?

Speaker 4: Yeah, certainly. It’s that unknown. You work with a customer. Maybe they have their own engineering department.

[4:50] Maybe they don’t. Because a lot of the other job shops or manufacturers that I work with, maybe their customers don’t have engineers on staff to help them figure out a way to You know design a certain product that’s going to work for them You know those engineers that maybe some job jobs have on staff You know a lot of their time is really heavy into that r& d space where they’re designing new products or new ways to come about To a different conclusion maybe creating some efficiencies as well in your current Like you said you maybe have 60 of reoccurring work.

[5:30] Maybe they’re spending time Uh, and finding out ways to create the products that you currently do make and find a better way to do it, too. So, yeah, definitely all, all those activities would fit in that bucket of something that could qualify for an R& D credit as well.

[5:40] Speaker: So critique me on our method of tracking that and, and, and, you know, maybe this will put it in perspective for listeners.

[5:50] So, ERP system that we can track our time against. But regardless of how you’re tracking time, if you track that time, in our example, if we have a new part come in, so my programmer is recording his programming time to program the CNC machine to make that part, right? If we need to create workholding and fixturing for that, we record it against.

[6:10] Kind of that first time run, non reoccurring expense of doing so. Then there’s the setup time that occurs on the floor of setting up that lathe, setting up the mill, whatever it might take. So in, in throughout that process of a new job coming in, if I capture all those time, all that time, um, and, and materials, you know, so, so I’ve got to have aluminum for the fixture.

[6:30] Maybe I need certain tooling, something like that. All of those things now are eligible for an r& d tax credit. Is that a fair statement?

[6:40] Speaker 3: Yeah Presuming you meet all the tests. Yes You aren’t required to use a time tracking system if you have one You’re in a better spot than most because the irs does come in if they examine it and they want to look at the support having that time tracking system is a Pretty good piece of evidence that shows here’s how many hours this person spent on this particular project,

Speaker: right?

Speaker 3: But it’s not required, right? You can do it based on calendars You can do it based on an estimate of someone’s time

Speaker: takes 20 percent of a job or something like that.

[7:10] Speaker 3: Yeah Yep, but all those costs should qualify and maybe one caveat to the contract manufacturing world Is you do have to look at which party has the economic risk?

[7:30] Uh, and this was some things that the IRS had clarified over the last few years, because let’s say, for example, your customer is paying you by the hour to design a new product for them. You have no risk in that. If you spend 100 hours, if you spend 300 hours, you’re still getting paid for it. The economic risk is really on your customer in that scenario.

[7:50] That would be different if they said, I’ll pay you 50, 000 to design this. Because then the economic risk is on you. If you spend 100, 000 on it, you’re still only getting 50. Um, so you gotta look at who has those economic risks. But then within there, yeah, it’s process improvements, it’s product improvements.

[8:10] Um, I can’t think of a manufacturer who isn’t doing some level of research, right? You would have to be making one product, the same product, the same way that you’ve been making it for your entire life cycle in order to not have research. If you’re tweaking it at all, the way that you’re making it, the way that the product is finished, the functionality of the product, you’re doing some sort of research.

[8:30] Speaker: Okay, so just low hanging fruit from a, from an R& D standpoint, would it, would it be safe to assume that most contract manufacturers, job shops, if they have, you know, someone that’s spending half their time doing, you know, programming new jobs, or they have four programmers that are programming new jobs, that they’re a large percentage of those people’s salaries would qualify for R& D tax credits?

[8:50] Speaker 3: Correct. Yep. And then beyond that too, you’d have the oversight team. So you’d have the management team who’s involved, you’d have potentially the accounting team, the HR team supervising those people. So there are a lot of costs kind of up and down the chain, both direct and indirect that you can pull into that calculation.

[9:10] Speaker: Yeah. So I, you know, I know from the, you know, from the smallest to the consider maybe a small, the smaller side of a contract manufacturer drop shop where maybe the owner is spending two thirds of their time or a third of their time, whatever. Programming the new jobs, right? So it’s just, you know, maybe it’s maybe it’s a small shop.

[9:30] That’s an owner and a handful of employees and the owner does all the programming. Some portion of their income could be claimed as R and D tax credits all the way up to maybe a larger, you know, contract job shop. That’s got four or five people on a team of programmers. Possibly that entire department.

[9:50] Plus the ancillary services, like you said, I mean, the oversight and the management portion of that could be claimed as R& D tax credits.

[10:00] Speaker 3: Yeah, you can. Now, you’ve got to be a little bit careful from, you know, the owner perspective, maybe the C suite perspective. Uh, we’ve seen some examples where a president of a business will say they’re 100 percent of their time is R& D.

Speaker: Yeah.

[10:10] Speaker 3: Well, as the president of the business, you’ve got other responsibilities in managing that business. So claiming a hundred percent probably isn’t reasonable,

Speaker: right?

Speaker 3: But yeah, and we’ve had some scenarios,

Speaker: 20%.

[10:20] Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely. And especially the owners who are intimately involved in their business, who understand that manufacturing process, those people tend to set up better for IRS.

[10:30] Interviews because they can explain the technical nature the uncertainty of their process or their product

[10:40] Speaker: and then mechanically How does that r& d credit work? So if I can capture that so like in our in our case with our you know The way we track erp in our erp system and stuff. I mean I can nail down that number pretty darn close But then what do I do with that number?

[10:50] Right? I mean, it’s time to file my taxes What did what do I do with that r& d number?

Speaker 4: Yeah, i’d

Speaker: say

[11:00] Speaker 4: once you capture all that information you’re looking at What does that wage bucket look like? Maybe you hired some contractors as well. What’s that number? You know, what are your consumables or other supplies that you’re using?

[11:10] So those are probably the three big buckets that make up that total qualified research expense and then it’s you know working with your your cpa to document that make sure you have All the correct information to be able to ultimately put that number on the form 6765 for the research and development tax credit.

[11:30] And, you know, generally speaking, it, there’s a little bit of movement between what that percentage of return on the dollar is, but maybe it’s somewhere between six to 10 percent on. What that total Q. R. E. is, you know, without getting too far into the weeds of establishing a base period and continuing to add to that Q.

[11:50] R. E. base for the qualified research experimental expenses there, that tax credit that 6 to 10 percent is a dollar for dollar reduction in your tax liability.

[12:00] Speaker: Yeah, I’m glad you said that because I was gonna, you know, I was gonna ask you to, you guys to define, I mean, a credit is a credit, right? I mean, it’s It is a dollar for dollar exchange, correct?

I mean, once you do that calculation.

[12:10] Speaker 3: Yeah. I think there’s, there’s Mike, there’s often some confusion on what a deduction versus credit would be. Right. So a tax deduction, if you’ve got a hundred dollar deduction, the actual cash savings, you would take that a hundred dollars times your tax rate, and that would be the cash that that deduction would save you.

Speaker: Might save you 25, 30 bucks.

[12:30] Speaker 3: Yep. Yeah 25 30 in that example in a credit scenario. It’s dollar for dollar So if you’ve got a 30 research credit, you’re saving 30 in tax

Speaker: Yeah,

[12:40] Speaker 3: there are also some rules if you are maybe a newer business a smaller business because obviously implied in having a tax credit You have to have Tax in the first place to offset.

[12:50] Um, so if you didn’t have any tax generated credit might not be beneficial to you. For certain startup businesses, businesses whose gross receipts are under 5 million, there could be an option to take that research credit against your payroll tax liability. Okay. As opposed to income tax liability.

Speaker: I did not realize that.

[13:10] Speaker 3: Yeah. So that can help for some of those startup businesses who aren’t going to have taxable income. They can still get some cashflow savings from research via a payroll tax credit.

Speaker: Okay. Yeah. That’s great. That’s great.

[13:20] Speaker 3: One other thing too is, is often states have their own version of a research credit.

[13:30] So, uh, Dylan kind of walked through the federal rules there. Uh, a lot of states like Illinois, like Wisconsin also have. Research credits. The rules, uh, sometimes are tied directly to the federal rules. Sometimes the state has its own rules. So when you’re reviewing that, not only look for it from a Fed perspective, look at it from your state perspective as well.

[13:50] Speaker: Okay, so that’s great information about R& D tax credits. I, I agree. I think it’s such an overlooked opportunity. What changes are going on with R& D tax credits right now that people should consider?

[14:00] Speaker 3: Yeah, I think the biggest change that happened just started back in 2022 is there was a change in how research expenses under section 174 get recorded for tax purposes.

[14:10] So historically, you were able to just expense those costs. So if you paid someone to do research, you took a deduction for that amount in the year that you paid it. The 174 rules have kind of changed that. And this was somewhat of an unintended consequence of the way that the last legislation was written.

[14:30] It also could be part of. tax legislation in the future getting rid of this requirement. But the requirement today is that those research expenses get capitalized and amortized as opposed to expensed. If the research is done in the US, you capitalize and amortize over five years. If the research is done overseas, you capitalize and amortize over 10 years or over 15 years.

[14:50] Um, so it was a. Big change for a lot of taxpayers back in 2022. We’re used to expensing these costs Uh, technically the 174 rules apply whether or not you claim a research credit so you may not have Claim to research credit. Historically, that doesn’t mean that you’re not doing research and subject to these rules, so that can create a little bit more planning around what that R and D credit and what that study might look like again, we’re monitoring the status of the one 74 because neither the.

[15:20] Democratic party nor the republican party wants this to be a rule They just haven’t figured out a way to get rid of it and pay for it

Speaker: Okay,

[15:30] Speaker 3: um, so hopefully again It’s part of that tax package that we see in q1 or q2 and can get back to Expensing those research costs as incurred.

[15:40] Speaker: Gotcha So is that across the entire rd credit or is that is is there a min max?

there like

[15:50] Speaker 3: no min max and and so most of the 174 expenses are the same as the research expenses they’re technically two separate code sections but they overlap quite a bit there are a few extra 174 costs that you have to consider that aren’t credit eligible but yeah it applies kind of across the entire r& d process

Speaker: so the double dip i gotta get they’ve got to be a credit or

Speaker 3: Correct.

[16:10] Yeah. Yeah. And hopefully again, hopefully we get this fixed. It was somewhat of a surprise and it has caused a lot of cashflow issues for smaller businesses. Cause if you think about what the majority of these expenses are, is their salary costs. So you’re paying these things weekly, bi weekly, whatever.

[16:30] And so the cash is already out the door. And so having to capitalize and the runway for expensing go over five or 15 years was fairly punitive to a lot of taxpayers. And so we’re hoping they can fix that. Um, get some of those capitalized costs recovered and kind of save some cash that way.

Speaker: But, I mean, despite that, I mean it, you know, even as it’s not as clear cut, it’s just a straight up credit.

[16:50] I mean, that’s, that can still be a significant savings.

[17:00] Speaker 3: Still, yeah, because the R& D credit is a permanent tax savings versus the 174 is the timing difference. And so, yeah, there still could be a definite benefit to having that permanent tax savings, even if you’ve got to defer some of those expenses a little bit.

[17:10] Speaker: Okay, yeah, no, that’s, that’s great advice. I know we’re, I know we’re coming up on, you know, I mean, you guys, like I said earlier, you guys are in the the thick of tax season. So I know I don’t want to take too much more of your time, but I have, I have one more question, kind of general question. And then I have kind of two questions that, that one or both of you might want to answer.

[17:30] So there’s a large number of our listeners that, you know, and this is going to be a topic we’re going to discuss later. And I’d love to have you guys back to discuss it, but talk to, talk to us real briefly. If I’m thinking about starting, Say a contract, you know, manufacturer, job shop type environment.

[17:50] Talk just real briefly about like entity selection. Should I be an LLC? Should I be a corp? Should I, like, how should I structure this?

Speaker 3: Yeah, Mike, there’s, that’s a loaded question there because there’s a lot of factors to think about.

[18:00] Speaker: I know. I know. I know. I apologize,

Speaker 3: but it’s a good conversation to have.

[18:10] And one that you definitely should have as you’re setting up a business, the things that you should be considering are tax rate considerations. Um, right now we’ve got a certain set of tax rates, like 37 percent max individual rate. Uh, at the end of 25, there are some legislation that has set the sunset that could impact that top rate could increase it to 39.

[18:30] 6%. Okay. Uh, and for manufacturers, There’s this concept of Section 199A or the Qualified Business Income Deduction that basically for manufacturing S corps and partnerships and a lot of other industry S corps and partnerships, they get a 20 percent deduction. On the top tax rate that they pay on business income.

[18:50] So instead of paying 37%, they’re paying 29.

Speaker: 6%.

[19:00] Speaker 3: Well, that is set to sunset at the end of 2025. And so taxpayers who are S corps and partnerships taking that deduction could have their tax rate go from 29. 6 percent to 39. 6 percent overnight. And so looking back to why this is important for entity selection.

[19:10] Looking at LLC S Corp, which are flow through entities, meaning that the entity itself doesn’t pay tax. Instead, the income gets distributed out to the individual picks it up and they pay tax on their own return versus a C corporation, which is a taxable entity. The C corporation pays its own tax. But in a C corp scenario, there also comes along with a double layer of tax, meaning if you sent the dividend out to the shareholders, they pay tax again.

[19:40] So looking at your tax rate is extremely important when determining entity selection, because you could have vastly different. Tax rates and cash needs depending on LLC, S corp versus C corp.

[19:50] Speaker: And if you’re thinking about starting an entity specifically, I mean, you, there, there’s not a right answer to that question, right?

[20:00] I mean, and that’s kind of what I was trying to get to. And in my opinion, there’s not a, there’s not a right answer. You really have to look at the, the owner or owners, the investors. And everybody’s particular situation. Would you agree with that?

Speaker 3: Yeah, there’s a lot of facts to consider. So tax rate is, is one of them.

[20:20] Ownership structure is one of them. Are you going to take on new money and will that money come from private equity venture capital? If you do that, maybe an S corp doesn’t. Make sense because S corps can only have certain types of owners.

Speaker: Sure.

[20:30] Speaker 3: Um, a LLC is not an eligible S corp owner. So if a private equity group came in, you’d probably be considering an LLC or a C corp.

Speaker: Yeah.

[20:40] Speaker 3: Uh, you’ve also got to consider how long you’re going to hold the investment and what the exit strategy might look like.

Speaker: Right.

[20:50] Speaker 3: There are different consequences for selling an LLC or an S corp versus selling a C corp. Um, yeah, there’s a lot of factors, both. Tax related and non tax related that go into that entity selection choice, but I would agree There’s no there’s no 100 percent right answer for anyone

[21:10] Speaker: the reason I want to introduce the topics because I know the question comes up quite a bit and and I’m looking forward to diving into that in a future episode and You know, hopefully we can have have you guys on to maybe talk about some of that.

[21:20] Okay, so so two last questions for you Um, and you can both answer them or just one of you I can split them up However, you prefer to do it. But what is the biggest Tax savings opportunity that you think manufacturers miss Right now just I mean that you see when you bring on someone new that that they’re all missing.

Speaker 4: I would

Speaker: say one

[21:40] Speaker 4: uh tax credit opportunity that May be applicable to line manufacturers as a work opportunity tax credit. It’s a tax credit. That’s available to employers that who employ certain individuals from a specific group of people that have barriers to entry on employment, whether it’s, you know, long term unemployed people, unemployed veterans, ex felons, people on food, food stamps, the credit can be up to 9, 600 per employee.

[22:10] So it can be. A pretty significant credit, depending on what that looks like for your workforce and generally it’s not something you go back and try and go ask a bunch of questions of your current employees. Maybe it’s a new onboarding process that you implement. You ask, ask questions during onboarding that.

[22:30] you know, can provide the information needed to, to look at that credit. But it’s generally one that there’s some benefit there if you want to dig into it on the manufacturing side.

Speaker: And you said it’s 9, 600 per employee. Yeah.

[22:40] Speaker 4: That would be the max credit. There are some requirements to that. You know, those, those people have to work roughly 120 hours in their first 12 months of employment.

[22:50] So you can have a mix of full time part time people. And that credit may go up or down depending on what the overall. Salary looks like and the total hours that they’re working too, but at a high level, that’s, that’s what that one looks like.

[23:00] Speaker: Okay. So work opportunity credit, Nick, do you have anything to add to that?

Or do you?

[23:10] Speaker 3: No, you know, that’s a good one because those are, those are employees that you’re probably hiring already. Yeah. Right. And so you’ve already made that decision and might as well get a little cash back from the IRS for making that decision. What I see most, I think is, and we’ve talked about it, it’s that research credit.

Yeah.

Speaker: That’s, that’s where my head is.

[23:20] Speaker 3: Yeah. People don’t quite understand. They think it’s that lab coat feel. You’ve got to have a whole testing wing in the back. That’s not really it. And as we talked about, if you’re a manufacturer and you’ve been around for a while and you’re developing your business, your business changes and you find new and better ways to do things.

[23:40] You find new and better products for different segments of the market. And in order to do that, you’ve got to do research behind the scenes to be able to feel comfortable to send that product or that process out.

Speaker: Yeah, sure.

[23:50] Speaker 3: So I would say. Almost a hundred percent. I don’t like to talk in absolutes, but pretty darn close to a hundred percent of manufacturers Probably are doing some level of research that they should look at

[24:00] Speaker: so it’s interesting that the two things that you guys asked about in Just kind of that biggest kind of missed opportunity or both tax credits that you know Generally, it’s just probably not a lot of education around right?

[24:10] So That, that tells me I need to dig deeper into those two things in some episodes, so, so we can do some education to the market on those.

Speaker 4: Yeah.

[24:20] Speaker: Last question, and, and it might be the same, but we just, we’ve gone through administration change at the federal level, and then of course different states have gone through their changes and so forth, and it’s all, it, it’d be too impossible to talk about.

[24:40] You know, state and local tax at this level, but what’s one change that you’re looking for in 2025, good or bad, you know, that people should be paying attention to that may affect them as manufacturers from a, from a regulatory or, you know, compliance standpoint, what do you, what are you guys watching to see what happens?

And how it’ll affect manufacturers.

[25:00] Speaker 3: Yeah, we’re in a kind of a unique spot right now So because of the way that the last tax rules were passed and I hinted at this earlier They went through what’s called the budget reconciliation process And in that process whatever bill they pass cannot increase the deficit by a certain dollar amount over a 10 year period So what happened is back in 2018 We had a lot of incentives come out and for the first seven years the ones Those incentives were in play and under legislation at the end, they started to sunset.

[25:30] And so that’s where some of those things like that tax rate increase, like that one 99 a, that 20 percent deduction goes away overnight. There’s some other things that will sunset at the end of 2025 under current law. So what we’re really looking at is. Can they get legislation passed before the end of the year that will fix some of these issues, whether another temporary patch or a permanent fix?

Speaker: Right.

[25:50] Speaker 3: Uh, and so that’s really what we’re looking at. Hopefully we see some sort of at least proposed legislation in Q1, Q2. And that way we can start to at least frame out what planning might look like for 2025.

Speaker: Yep.

Speaker 3: But the big ones are going to be, uh, tax rate. All right. What’s the top individual tax rate?

[26:10] What’s the top corporate tax rate? The one 99 eight at 20 percent deduction, you know, looking at the estate and gift exemption, which right now is that. 14 million per person would set to go down in about half of that at the end of 2025. So that’s really what we’re looking at seeing what that legislation will be, how it will impact taxpayers.

And we’ll see.

Speaker: Yeah.

[26:30] Speaker 3: I think if anything, we know over the last eight to 10 years, there’s a lot of uncertainty in legislation, especially in the tax world. And then also how, how are they going to. Pay for it, right? What are the offsets going to be? Yeah, if we keep tax rates low We’ve seen some of that in in tariffs We’ve seen potentially some other impacts that businesses will have to for the government to raise money to keep these tax incentives around Yeah, so just a very unique time with a lot of headwind on legislation and looming changes We just don’t know what those changes are gonna be yet

[27:10] Speaker: I actually think that’s a great way to wrap up because I think what it does is emphasizes the importance that you have a a great relationship with the CPA, you know, having spent time in the CPA firm myself, um, I, I mean, I know the importance of the teams of people behind you two that are keeping track of all those things.

[27:20] And, and, you know, with you guys having, you know, a niche in manufacturing, right, educating you on the things that matter to your clients so that, so that you can go out and you can help them save money, increase cashflow, defer taxes. Whatever to their individual situations might be, and, you know, speaking of, I think it’s probably important to, from my perspective, to, to put out the disclaimer that all these things we’re talking about are, do not apply to everybody, right?

[28:00] I mean, taxes are a very personal situation, depends on your ownership structure, depends on your, you know, personal tax situation, depends on your, just, I mean, there’s so many factors, it’s impossible to say this is what you should do. Hands down, you know, but I think a lot of things we talked about today or are good general topics that people should talk about with their CPA, they should reach out to you guys.

[28:20] If they don’t have that relationship, you know, they should share this episode probably with their accountant, with their CFO, with their CPA, whoever it is and say, Hey, how does this apply to me? Because these are all just very personal situations. I mean, every, me. Every business I’ve ever been in has a little bit different scenario of how these things affect them.

[28:50] So, if they do want to reach out to you guys, because maybe they, you know, maybe they’re trying to do these returns themselves, and they’re missing, they’re missing a lot of this low hanging fruit, or their CPA maybe isn’t as engaged in the industry as you guys seem to be, What, what’s the best way to reach out to you, Dylan and Nick?

[29:00] Speaker 3: Yeah, you can shoot me an email, uh, Mike, I’m sure you’ll provide some contact info with the, with the podcast here. Um, but yeah, I’m open to talking at any point in time, you send me my number and my email address and absolutely just reach out.

Speaker 4: Same for me. I’ll share my email. Okay, perfect.

Speaker: You know, we have a lot of people connect via like LinkedIn and stuff.

[29:20] And I know, I, I know I’ve seen, you know, I think I’m connected with both of you on LinkedIn. Now, if not, we need to make that happen. But you know, certainly anybody can reach out to me and I’ll connect you with Clifton Larson and you know, you guys, I, I’ve, I’ve followed you guys for a long time and you have a, you have a very strong presence in the manufacturing space.

[29:40] You, You provide tons of great content out there whether it’s talking about inventory valuation methods or R& D credits and I mean all these things I mean you have those on your website and and you publish them on linkedin and different social media channels I mean people really should reach out follow you guys follow cla and And get that information.

[30:10] I know you host a lot of webinars. You do a lot of things to really educate the manufacturers on these topics and help you just kind of ask the right questions as, as an owner of like, what should I be doing? So, uh, listeners, please, you know, share this with anybody you think could benefit from it. I would definitely recommend you share it with your CPA.

[30:30] If, if we talked about anything in here that you’re not doing that you think you should be, Okay. you know, share it with them and just say, Hey, you know, I just listened to this and I’m not sure we’re talking about all the right things and, you know, tackle those, share it with your internal accountant, whoever, you know, whatever that might be, but dig into these things, reach out, let us know.

[30:50] Of course, always, you know, please, you know, rate, review our episodes, uh, give us any feedback. Looking forward to having Nick, Dylan, and some others from CLA back to, to dig into some of these things. Each one of these topics we’ve talked about could be episodes in and of themselves, but, but I need to know what What you’re fighting and what you want to know more about.

[31:10] So please give us that feedback. And, and as always, thank you for all your support with that. Uh, Nick Dylan, thank you very much for being here today.

Speaker 3: Thanks Mike. Appreciate it. Thanks

[31:20] Speaker: Mike.